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	<title>Kommentare zu: Obama and beyond</title>
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		<title>Von: salvo</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-21344</link>
		<dc:creator>salvo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-21344</guid>
		<description>Ende eines Mythos

während Obama im Glauben, in Rhetorik und Praxis zunehmend nach rechts wandert - im Glauben, die Wahlen in der &#039;Mitte&#039; gewinnen zu müssen, entfremdet er zunehmend die &#039;progressive&#039; Basis, der er sein Erfolg in den primaries verdankt, zuletzt mit seiner Stimme für die FISA Gesetzgebung

Ryan Lizza hat in einem langen Artikel (15 Seiten) über die Kampagne Obamas ausführlich geschrieben und ihn als &#039;talentierten und berechnenden Politiker&#039; demythisiert

&quot;[P]erhaps the greatest misconception about Barack Obama is that he is some sort of anti-establishment revolutionary. Rather, every stage of his political career has been marked by an eagerness to accommodate himself to existing institutions rather than tear them down or replace them....he has always played politics by the rules as they exist, not as he would like them to exist. He runs as an outsider, but he has succeeded by mastering the inside game&quot;

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza

Obama wird mittlerweile als &#039;flip-flopper&#039; charakterisiert, selbst in den &#039;liberalen&#039; Medien, was ihn jedoch den Sieg kosten könnte, wie zuvor die anderen demokratischen Kandidaten</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ende eines Mythos</p>
<p>während Obama im Glauben, in Rhetorik und Praxis zunehmend nach rechts wandert &#8211; im Glauben, die Wahlen in der &#8216;Mitte&#8217; gewinnen zu müssen, entfremdet er zunehmend die &#8216;progressive&#8217; Basis, der er sein Erfolg in den primaries verdankt, zuletzt mit seiner Stimme für die FISA Gesetzgebung</p>
<p>Ryan Lizza hat in einem langen Artikel (15 Seiten) über die Kampagne Obamas ausführlich geschrieben und ihn als &#8216;talentierten und berechnenden Politiker&#8217; demythisiert</p>
<p>&#8220;[P]erhaps the greatest misconception about Barack Obama is that he is some sort of anti-establishment revolutionary. Rather, every stage of his political career has been marked by an eagerness to accommodate himself to existing institutions rather than tear them down or replace them&#8230;.he has always played politics by the rules as they exist, not as he would like them to exist. He runs as an outsider, but he has succeeded by mastering the inside game&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza'>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza</a></p>
<p>Obama wird mittlerweile als &#8216;flip-flopper&#8217; charakterisiert, selbst in den &#8216;liberalen&#8217; Medien, was ihn jedoch den Sieg kosten könnte, wie zuvor die anderen demokratischen Kandidaten</p>
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		<title>Von: Michael Kostic</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-20598</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kostic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-20598</guid>
		<description>@salvo:

Ich denke es wird für uns alle sehr schwer werden, nicht nur für die Amis. Ich war lange genug da um festzustellen das es sich bei diesem Volk um ein gutgläubiges, naives Wesen handelt, dass kulturell seine pubertäre Phase noch immer nicht hinter sich gebracht haben. Entweder das legt sich mit der Zeit von selbst, oder es führt zum (mehr oder weniger) gewaltsamen Bruch mit den &quot;Eltern&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@salvo:</p>
<p>Ich denke es wird für uns alle sehr schwer werden, nicht nur für die Amis. Ich war lange genug da um festzustellen das es sich bei diesem Volk um ein gutgläubiges, naives Wesen handelt, dass kulturell seine pubertäre Phase noch immer nicht hinter sich gebracht haben. Entweder das legt sich mit der Zeit von selbst, oder es führt zum (mehr oder weniger) gewaltsamen Bruch mit den &#8220;Eltern&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Von: salvo</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-20588</link>
		<dc:creator>salvo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-20588</guid>
		<description>@Michael

ja, ich hoffe, dass ich weiter hoffen kann ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael</p>
<p>ja, ich hoffe, dass ich weiter hoffen kann ;-)</p>
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		<title>Von: Michael Kostic</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-20586</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kostic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-20586</guid>
		<description>;-)

Hoffnung...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>;-)</p>
<p>Hoffnung&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Von: salvo</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-20576</link>
		<dc:creator>salvo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-20576</guid>
		<description>Hinweis:

Obama&#039;s Chicago Boys

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hinweis:</p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s Chicago Boys</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein'>http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein</a></p>
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		<title>Von: pedomeple</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-20395</link>
		<dc:creator>pedomeple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-20395</guid>
		<description>Give Female Pheromones for a fun gift:
Going to a bachelorette party and want to surprise your friends? See how amused they are when you give it to them and then when they actually use it on their husband to be... That might be the perfect thing to fire up that special evening for the newlywed couple. 
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Other products - http://kopetl.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give Female Pheromones for a fun gift:<br />
Going to a bachelorette party and want to surprise your friends? See how amused they are when you give it to them and then when they actually use it on their husband to be&#8230; That might be the perfect thing to fire up that special evening for the newlywed couple.<br />
<a href="http://www.kopetl.com/r/">Visit our website now to check out the huge discount sale going on right now! Hurry though as discount specials will be discontinued within the next few days!</a><br />
Other products &#8211; <a href="http://kopetl.com" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://kopetl.com'>http://kopetl.com</a></p>
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		<title>Von: Zeboaracata</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-20047</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeboaracata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-20047</guid>
		<description>Use Pheromones To Turn On Your Spouse or Existing Sexual Partner:
Start a new passion between you and your mate and energize your existing relationship just by wearing this human pheromone! When she doesn&#039;t feel in &quot;the mood&quot; or has a &quot;headache&quot;, try the human pheromone and see how she reacts. Even though the pheromones are orderless to you she will notice the difference! Just sprinkle a few drops on your pillow and see how she becomes instantly amorous.
[URL=http://www.kopetl.com/r/]Visit our website now to check out the huge discount sale going on right now! Hurry though as discount specials will be discontinued within the next few days![/URL]
Other products - http://kopetl.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Use Pheromones To Turn On Your Spouse or Existing Sexual Partner:<br />
Start a new passion between you and your mate and energize your existing relationship just by wearing this human pheromone! When she doesn&#8217;t feel in &#8220;the mood&#8221; or has a &#8220;headache&#8221;, try the human pheromone and see how she reacts. Even though the pheromones are orderless to you she will notice the difference! Just sprinkle a few drops on your pillow and see how she becomes instantly amorous.<br />
[URL=http://www.kopetl.com/r/]Visit our website now to check out the huge discount sale going on right now! Hurry though as discount specials will be discontinued within the next few days![/URL]<br />
Other products &#8211; <a href="http://kopetl.com" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://kopetl.com'>http://kopetl.com</a></p>
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		<title>Von: US Wahl 2008 Clinton Obama McCain &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ehemaliger US Sicherheitsberater fordert neue Iranpolitik</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-19560</link>
		<dc:creator>US Wahl 2008 Clinton Obama McCain &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ehemaliger US Sicherheitsberater fordert neue Iranpolitik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 11:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-19560</guid>
		<description>[...] Gute Ergänzung mit Interview-Auszug von Brezezinski auf dem Spiegelfechter. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gute Ergänzung mit Interview-Auszug von Brezezinski auf dem Spiegelfechter. [...]</p>
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		<title>Von: transwarp</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-15465</link>
		<dc:creator>transwarp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-15465</guid>
		<description>AMY GOODMAN: Barack Obama? 


ALLAN NAIRN: Well, Obama’s top adviser is Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski gave an interview to the French press a number of years ago where he boasted about the fact that it was he who created the whole Afghan jihadi movement, the movement that produced Osama bin Laden. And he was asked by the interviewer, “Well, don’t you think this might have had some bad consequences?” And Brzezinski replied, “Absolutely not. It was definitely worth it, because we were going after the Soviets. We were getting the Soviets.” Another top Obama person— 


AMY GOODMAN: I think his comment actually was, “What’s a few riled-up Muslims?” And this, that whole idea of blowback, the idea of arming, financing, training the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, including Osama bin Laden, and then when they’re done with the Soviets, they set their sights, well, on the United States. 


ALLAN NAIRN: Right. And later, during Bill Clinton’s administration, during the Bosnia killing, the US actually flew some of the Afghan Mujahideen, the early al-Qaeda people—the US actually arranged for them to be flown from there to Bosnia to fight on the Muslim/NATO side. 


Another key Obama adviser, Anthony Lake, he was the main force behind the US invasion of Haiti in the mid-Clinton years during which they brought back Aristide essentially in political chains, pledged to support a World Bank/IMF overhaul of the economy, which resulted in an increase in malnutrition deaths among Haitians and set the stage for the current ongoing political disaster in Haiti. 


Another Obama adviser, General Merrill McPeak, an Air Force man, who not long after the Dili massacre in East Timor in ’91 that you and I survived, he was—I happened to see on Indonesian TV shortly after that—there was General McPeak overseeing the delivery to Indonesia of US fighter planes. 


Another key Obama adviser, Dennis Ross. Ross, for many years under both Clinton and Bush 2, a key—he has advised Clinton and both Bushes. He oversaw US policy toward Israel/Palestine. He pushed the principle that the legal rights of the Palestinians, the rights recognized under international law, must be subordinated to the needs of the Israeli government—in other words, their desires, their desires to expand to do whatever they want in the Occupied Territories. And Ross was one of the people who, interestingly, led the political assault on former Democratic President Jimmy Carter. Carter, no peacenik—I mean, Carter is the one who bears ultimate responsibility for that Timor terror that Holbrooke was involved in. But Ross led an assault on him, because, regarding Palestine, Carter was so bold as to agree with Bishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa that what Israel was doing in the Occupied Territories was tantamount to apartheid. And so, Ross was one of those who fiercely attacked him. 


Another Obama adviser, Sarah Sewall, who heads a human rights center at Harvard and is a former Defense official, she wrote the introduction to General Petraeus’s Marine Corps/Army counterinsurgency handbook, the handbook that is now being used worldwide by US troops in various killing operations. That’s the Obama team. 

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/3/vote_for_change_atrocity_linked_us</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMY GOODMAN: Barack Obama? </p>
<p>ALLAN NAIRN: Well, Obama’s top adviser is Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski gave an interview to the French press a number of years ago where he boasted about the fact that it was he who created the whole Afghan jihadi movement, the movement that produced Osama bin Laden. And he was asked by the interviewer, “Well, don’t you think this might have had some bad consequences?” And Brzezinski replied, “Absolutely not. It was definitely worth it, because we were going after the Soviets. We were getting the Soviets.” Another top Obama person— </p>
<p>AMY GOODMAN: I think his comment actually was, “What’s a few riled-up Muslims?” And this, that whole idea of blowback, the idea of arming, financing, training the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, including Osama bin Laden, and then when they’re done with the Soviets, they set their sights, well, on the United States. </p>
<p>ALLAN NAIRN: Right. And later, during Bill Clinton’s administration, during the Bosnia killing, the US actually flew some of the Afghan Mujahideen, the early al-Qaeda people—the US actually arranged for them to be flown from there to Bosnia to fight on the Muslim/NATO side. </p>
<p>Another key Obama adviser, Anthony Lake, he was the main force behind the US invasion of Haiti in the mid-Clinton years during which they brought back Aristide essentially in political chains, pledged to support a World Bank/IMF overhaul of the economy, which resulted in an increase in malnutrition deaths among Haitians and set the stage for the current ongoing political disaster in Haiti. </p>
<p>Another Obama adviser, General Merrill McPeak, an Air Force man, who not long after the Dili massacre in East Timor in ’91 that you and I survived, he was—I happened to see on Indonesian TV shortly after that—there was General McPeak overseeing the delivery to Indonesia of US fighter planes. </p>
<p>Another key Obama adviser, Dennis Ross. Ross, for many years under both Clinton and Bush 2, a key—he has advised Clinton and both Bushes. He oversaw US policy toward Israel/Palestine. He pushed the principle that the legal rights of the Palestinians, the rights recognized under international law, must be subordinated to the needs of the Israeli government—in other words, their desires, their desires to expand to do whatever they want in the Occupied Territories. And Ross was one of the people who, interestingly, led the political assault on former Democratic President Jimmy Carter. Carter, no peacenik—I mean, Carter is the one who bears ultimate responsibility for that Timor terror that Holbrooke was involved in. But Ross led an assault on him, because, regarding Palestine, Carter was so bold as to agree with Bishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa that what Israel was doing in the Occupied Territories was tantamount to apartheid. And so, Ross was one of those who fiercely attacked him. </p>
<p>Another Obama adviser, Sarah Sewall, who heads a human rights center at Harvard and is a former Defense official, she wrote the introduction to General Petraeus’s Marine Corps/Army counterinsurgency handbook, the handbook that is now being used worldwide by US troops in various killing operations. That’s the Obama team. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/3/vote_for_change_atrocity_linked_us" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/3/vote_for_change_atrocity_linked_us'>http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/3/vote_for_change_atrocity_linked_us</a></p>
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		<title>Von: Michael Kostic</title>
		<link>http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond/comment-page-2#comment-14307</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kostic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/283/obama-and-beyond#comment-14307</guid>
		<description>@salvo:

Du meintest Karl Kraus, richtig?

„Unter den übrig gebliebenen Kandidaten tendiere ich auch eher zu Obama, wobei mich eher nur eine vielleicht naive Hoffnung trägt, er versucht doch einen ‘Wandel’ zum Besseren zu durchzusetzen. Mehr als Hoffnung ist das aber nicht.“

Yep, sehe ich auch so ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@salvo:</p>
<p>Du meintest Karl Kraus, richtig?</p>
<p>„Unter den übrig gebliebenen Kandidaten tendiere ich auch eher zu Obama, wobei mich eher nur eine vielleicht naive Hoffnung trägt, er versucht doch einen ‘Wandel’ zum Besseren zu durchzusetzen. Mehr als Hoffnung ist das aber nicht.“</p>
<p>Yep, sehe ich auch so ;-)</p>
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